EN 
PromethEUs
C. Eyssautier & E. Gerbault
Attila K.
Hungarian student in Economics
PromethEUs
How did you experience the election day in Hungary?
Attila K.
At the time when the election was going on, I was still living in Munich, but for the election, I came back to vote in person, as there were some concerns of election fraud. I wanted to make sure that I'm voting here in Hungary and my ballot gets counted. After I voted, I stayed home in the afternoon and in the evening, I went out with some friends to wait for the results. When they started counting the ballots, they were still not really sure. Fidesz had a lead at the start of 10%, so I wasn't really sure how it was going to end. After 30% of the count, Viktor Orban announced that he is conceding the election, but we were waiting for a trick.
After 60, 70 percent of the counts were made, it was clear to see that the election was going to be won by Peter Magyar. He then organized a speech. We went there to see it and everybody else from the city who was out in the evening tried to go there and have a celebration, as Budapest has historically been an opposition city. From this, it was not really a surprise that the people of the city were happy about it, but we were surprised that such a large part of the population in the country had as well turned around on Orban.
After 60, 70 percent of the counts were made, it was clear to see that the election was going to be won by Peter Magyar. He then organized a speech. We went there to see it and everybody else from the city who was out in the evening tried to go there and have a celebration, as Budapest has historically been an opposition city. From this, it was not really a surprise that the people of the city were happy about it, but we were surprised that such a large part of the population in the country had as well turned around on Orban.
PromethEUs
Before the elections, did you feel you could openly talk about politics, and did that change?
Attila K.
About free speech, I would say I didn't feel it being restricted at all, although in everyday life outside or in professional life everybody is way more careful with their opinions. In general, out of the public sphere, if you're not working in a public position, I felt like we could say whatever we want. I don't think that in that meaning, Fidesz was restricting any free speech. The problem was arising more in the media and for people working in media organization or in a public position. That’s where it could become problematic: if you went against the status quo, you would find yourself replaced as they have infiltrated basically every consequent media organization and also had considerable economic power.
PromethEUs
In your own experience, have you noticed any change in how people your age talked about staying in Hungary versus building a life elsewhere in Europe? I know you lived in Munich for some years.
Attila K.
Yes, that was also part of the decision. I won't say it was the whole reason I went to Munich, but it was definitely a part of it. A lot of my friends had the same motivation, because they were seeing the country deteriorating. They didn't see a future where they could succeed and live a fulfilling life in Hungary. It was really bleak. And if the election had not been won this time, I wouldn't have decided to stay here long term either.
PromethEUs
Do you feel people around you made this decision too, out of a need to get closer to Europe and be more European, rather than just Hungarian and isolated from the rest of Europe?
Attila K.
Yes, definitely. Basically people below 40 or so were generally pro-Europe, and so were most of the older people, who are now anti-Brussels due to, in my opinion, the propaganda of the last couple of years, which blamed Brussels for every problem. Before that, they were very pro-European. Our country has always been caught in a struggle between the Eastern and the Western powers, and throughout most of history, the Hungarian people wanted to be part of Europe. We feel much closer to its culture and way of life. So people, young people especially, were very happy to be closer to Europe and to be part of this organization, instead of getting closer to Russia and China.
Of course, it's also important not to rely on the EU for everything. Personally, I don't mind getting closer to China sometimes for economic advantages. But overall, that is not what the government was doing: it was corruptly building ties so that it could make backdoor deals with the leaders of these countries and get very rich from it. The Hungarian people didn't get any advantage out of it. According to me, they actually suffered and paid money for these corrupt projects.
Of course, it's also important not to rely on the EU for everything. Personally, I don't mind getting closer to China sometimes for economic advantages. But overall, that is not what the government was doing: it was corruptly building ties so that it could make backdoor deals with the leaders of these countries and get very rich from it. The Hungarian people didn't get any advantage out of it. According to me, they actually suffered and paid money for these corrupt projects.
PromethEUs
Was there a main reason for your opposition to Orban, for you personally or among people you've heard speaking about how they felt the regime? When you voted, what was the first reason: against corruption, for Europe?
Attila K.
For everyday people, the most noticeable effect of the regime was, of course, the declining quality of life: high inflation, everything becoming expensive, from groceries to everyday life. The media was also very noticeable. Whenever you turned on the TV or the radio, whatever you saw was some kind of propaganda, because most of the media was owned by the government. We still have a couple of independent channels that are very popular, but they are the exception. It has a really negative effect on your psyche. That's how most people felt that this was going way overboard and that we had to do something about it.
PromethEUs
Did you have a main reason in mind when you voted?
Attila K.
Personally, the highest priority was the fight against corruption, because it was getting out of hand. There was scandal after scandal coming out on the few independent channels, about billions being stolen, even in euros. These people were getting insanely rich off taxpayer money and EU money, and people were finally waking up and deciding that this could not go on, because we were suffering from it. So that was the biggest reason for the change of government. I won't say for every Hungarian, but in my circle it was the biggest.
PromethEUs
Do you feel that the distance taken from the EU played a role in the election, or was it something that existed but was minor?
Attila K.
Yes, definitely. I would say the second biggest reason was probably international relations. Most people felt that we were getting further away from the EU and closer to Russia, which was the biggest problem. There was absolutely no sane reason for us to get closer to Russia. But every time, it seemed a new deal was made, or new diplomatic relations, or new embassy personnel was assigned from Russia. There was no logical reason for that, but it kept happening.
And let's just say we don't have the best history with Russia. I think, that also played a big part, because both of our revolutions were crushed by Russia.
And let's just say we don't have the best history with Russia. I think, that also played a big part, because both of our revolutions were crushed by Russia.
In a historical sense as well, it was absolutely insane to be friendly with this country. It has done irreparable damage to us several times. Most Hungarians, especially the younger people, feel European and want to be part of the EU. They feel they are part of this way of life, this culture.
So they were really fed up with the closer ties to Russia, also because the media kept bringing the message that closer ties with the East were good for us, but nobody was really believing that.
An example from election night: after it was found out that we had won, there was a slogan, "Russians out", because during the 1956 revolution, when we tried to get independence from the USSR, that was what was chanted in the streets of Budapest. A lot of people started chanting it again, and that signals that we don't want to be close to Russia, we want to be close to the EU. One more anecdote: it was pretty symbolic that Viktor Orban took down the EU flag from the parliament, and one of the first things the new government did was to put it back up.
An example from election night: after it was found out that we had won, there was a slogan, "Russians out", because during the 1956 revolution, when we tried to get independence from the USSR, that was what was chanted in the streets of Budapest. A lot of people started chanting it again, and that signals that we don't want to be close to Russia, we want to be close to the EU. One more anecdote: it was pretty symbolic that Viktor Orban took down the EU flag from the parliament, and one of the first things the new government did was to put it back up.
PromethEUs
And with the new government, do you feel that since April, Hungary is closer to Europe? Can you feel it in everyday life?
Attila K.
Yes, I would say there have definitely been concrete steps taken. The problem with the previous government was first the rule of law and the corruption. They centralized the ministries in a way that had not been seen before: I think there were 13 ministries before, and only 8 after they reorganized. So every ministry has more, and more centralized, power. They also had a bigger say in government projects and EU projects. They decided basically everything.
That obviously caught the EU's attention as well, and a lot of EU money has been blocked because of the rule of law changes. The second big problem was the vetoing of policy, and the clear reason for it was just Russian interest in Hungary, and corruption. So the EU doesn't work as efficiently as it should. And I think the new government has been logical about these decisions. We haven't seen any signs of foreign influence deciding for us whether we veto something or not.
That obviously caught the EU's attention as well, and a lot of EU money has been blocked because of the rule of law changes. The second big problem was the vetoing of policy, and the clear reason for it was just Russian interest in Hungary, and corruption. So the EU doesn't work as efficiently as it should. And I think the new government has been logical about these decisions. We haven't seen any signs of foreign influence deciding for us whether we veto something or not.
PromethEUs
What would you say was the main reason for the wish to get away from Russia that you described? And in what way were people interested in getting closer to the EU? Was it a matter of identity? Was it to get back the money frozen by Brussels? Was there any specific reason why the EU mattered in the election?
Attila K.
I would say it's both of what you said. First of all, identity. Our country is more than 1,000 years old. We have a lot of history with our neighbors, Austria, Slovakia, Croatia. We have hundreds of years of trade with Germany and Italy, and we have intermarriages with Poland and with empires. So we have an identity of being in the European community. Other than conflicts, we don't have any relations with Russia, and the only thing I can remember about Russia throughout our history is oppression. So there was no logical reason why we should be getting closer to this nation. Maybe if they had offered something economically, or if our way of life could be much better with them, but that was clearly not a factor. I believe that there was no other reason to get closer either.
What you also said, the blocking of EU money, is really important too. The way the old government left the country, it has picked up a lot of debt. The spending was not responsible at all, and a lot of money was wasted. For this new government to be successful, fix these corruption problems and kick the old corrupt politicians out of these old companies, these companies will of course suffer in the short term. So we need the supplement of EU money to start building our economy back up in a more sustainable and logical way, without completely ruining it for us.
What you also said, the blocking of EU money, is really important too. The way the old government left the country, it has picked up a lot of debt. The spending was not responsible at all, and a lot of money was wasted. For this new government to be successful, fix these corruption problems and kick the old corrupt politicians out of these old companies, these companies will of course suffer in the short term. So we need the supplement of EU money to start building our economy back up in a more sustainable and logical way, without completely ruining it for us.
PromethEUs
One of the main arguments of the Orban government was that keeping ties with Russia kept Hungary away from the conflict with Ukraine and from any risk of war. Do you feel that was indeed the case? And do you feel that Hungary now could get closer to Ukraine? Do you believe that it would be possible for Hungary to provide weapons and financial means to Ukraine, or is that still an idea Hungarians wouldn't accept?
Attila K.
For the first part of the question, I don't agree with that at all. Well, maybe a really small part: maybe we wouldn't be the next target if Russia decides to invade another country. But the main reason we weren't attacked is that we're in NATO. For me, that's the only reason Russia didn't attack Estonia or Latvia either, as if it was a main deterrent. The other reasons are just political posturing, saying how well we are positioning ourselves. The main geopolitical reason we weren't targeted is that we are part of a military alliance that has nukes in it and is supposed to defend any member nation.
As for the Ukraine question, the relationship has definitely changed, because before, with Orban, whatever the Russians told him to do, he did. But now I think we have already lifted our veto on the aid package for Ukraine, a couple of months ago, of about 60 or 70 billion EUR. I think that definitely signaled that we are open to cooperation and fine with supporting Ukraine with EU funds. And even though I'm not 100% sure, I think they also said it's fine to allow the transportation of weapons through Hungary to Ukraine. So the relationship has definitely changed, but I wouldn't say that Hungarians are 100% pro-Ukraine.
There is also some history. If you don't know, a part of Ukraine used to be part of Hungary, so there is a sizable Hungarian minority in Ukraine, whose rights were restricted recently, about a decade ago, which has created some conflicts in relations. I think Hungarians are in general a bit more skeptical about Ukrainians than, let's say, Spain or other Western European nations. And we know that they also have a lot of problems with corruption. The Hungarian would definitely not be opposed to their inclusion, and in the war, most of the people is definitely pro-Ukraine, not pro-Russia. But we are not exactly fans of fast-tracking their membership and letting them get away with not fulfilling some conditions, as some other countries would be fine with.
As for the Ukraine question, the relationship has definitely changed, because before, with Orban, whatever the Russians told him to do, he did. But now I think we have already lifted our veto on the aid package for Ukraine, a couple of months ago, of about 60 or 70 billion EUR. I think that definitely signaled that we are open to cooperation and fine with supporting Ukraine with EU funds. And even though I'm not 100% sure, I think they also said it's fine to allow the transportation of weapons through Hungary to Ukraine. So the relationship has definitely changed, but I wouldn't say that Hungarians are 100% pro-Ukraine.
There is also some history. If you don't know, a part of Ukraine used to be part of Hungary, so there is a sizable Hungarian minority in Ukraine, whose rights were restricted recently, about a decade ago, which has created some conflicts in relations. I think Hungarians are in general a bit more skeptical about Ukrainians than, let's say, Spain or other Western European nations. And we know that they also have a lot of problems with corruption. The Hungarian would definitely not be opposed to their inclusion, and in the war, most of the people is definitely pro-Ukraine, not pro-Russia. But we are not exactly fans of fast-tracking their membership and letting them get away with not fulfilling some conditions, as some other countries would be fine with.
PromethEUs
You said that many young people wanted to get closer to Europe rather than Russia. Was it polarized between generations at some point? I heard that many young people were aware of it, and that maybe older generations were more tolerant of it. Was it something like that?
Attila K.
Yes, it comes down to generations, because it mostly comes down to the difference in media consumption: older generations listen to the TV channels and the radio, and younger people get their information through the internet. The independent channels could only get airtime and viewership through internet channels. So most people who were getting their information mainly from the internet got a more independent view, and the people who just listened to TV and radio heard whatever the government wanted them to hear. If you listen to this for decades, you start to not question anything, and you have a completely different mindset, a different worldview, that is really hard to change. That's the main reason why younger people were more pro-EU: they had more independent information.
PromethEUs
What do you think of the idea of a common European media that would receive subsidies from the EU, and only from the EU, a public media owned by the Union? Would it be a good thing? Would you fear some kind of European propaganda? How would you receive the idea?
Attila K.
Overall, I would say it would be a good thing, definitely, to have a common media platform with relevant news from all kinds of member nations. As for the funding, I don't know how it could be built to have legitimacy. As you said, if it got 100% EU funding, any anti-EU party would immediately attack it and dismiss it as a propaganda channel for the EU. There is also, I wouldn't say a big chance of it, but a chance, that EU politicians or the Commission could interfere with what gets out and what doesn't. So I don't know how it could realistically be built in a way that is truly independent, but has good, relevant information for everyone.
PromethEUs
In France, we have what we call Arcom, an institution that controls what the media says, mostly during political campaigns. When a specific party or political group speaks much more than another one, it rebalances the speaking times by forcing the media that gives too much airtime to one side to correct it. So the idea would be to have the media financed by the EU, but also to have a capacity of control external to the EU, so that it stays independent and keeps everyone's voice heard, while being accessible to everyone all over the EU.
Attila K.
I think that structure makes more sense, to make sure that everybody is heard. A concern from some member nations would also be that it would just be a channel for Germany and France, because they are the biggest nations and they would dictate what gets published. But what you said, having a proper independent oversight board, would definitely be a good idea.
PromethEUs
Returning to our earlier point about regional partnerships, especially with Poland, Germany, Slovakia, and neighboring countries in general: critics often argue that closer EU integration dilutes national identity. Yet, deeper ties with your neighbors could also offer a platform to project your culture abroad. How do you strike that balance between safeguarding cultural identity and pursuing regional integration?
Attila K.
Personally, I don't think any EU law is really infringing on any of our cultural aspects, so I don't agree with this rhetoric that a more federalized EU, or closer ties, would erase our culture. In short, I don't think any aspect of Hungarian culture was erased because we joined the EU. I don't feel it at all, personally.
PromethEUs
If a Hungarian friend abroad asked you what has changed, in the media or culturally, especially in the media, since Orban lost, what would you say?
Attila K.
First of all, a lot of the propaganda posters and ads have stopped. That's a very noticeable change, and we are also making a regulation that limits political posters and ads. That's really noticeable in everyday life.
There was also news, right after the election, of a lot of chief editors and newspaper owners getting fired and ousted, who were part of the propaganda machine. One of the biggest propaganda papers, called Mandina, has also been completely bankrupted. It was just living off government money, and now they don't get anything, so they went bankrupt. There was also an owner of a big media group who went on one of the independent channels to give an interview, basically saying how he was part of this, the head of this propaganda machine, and trying to offer his media companies to the government so that he doesn't get prosecuted. That didn't work. He hopefully gets prosecuted soon for it.
Mainly, most of the media channels that were propped up by the government have almost completely stopped. A couple of them have remained, which have stable viewership, but most of them were just propped up by government money and now they are going bankrupt.
There was also news, right after the election, of a lot of chief editors and newspaper owners getting fired and ousted, who were part of the propaganda machine. One of the biggest propaganda papers, called Mandina, has also been completely bankrupted. It was just living off government money, and now they don't get anything, so they went bankrupt. There was also an owner of a big media group who went on one of the independent channels to give an interview, basically saying how he was part of this, the head of this propaganda machine, and trying to offer his media companies to the government so that he doesn't get prosecuted. That didn't work. He hopefully gets prosecuted soon for it.
Mainly, most of the media channels that were propped up by the government have almost completely stopped. A couple of them have remained, which have stable viewership, but most of them were just propped up by government money and now they are going bankrupt.
PromethEUs
About that, do you think the EU should try to implement more safeguards, on the way European money is used or on how to preserve democracy? It could mean getting the EU involved in national politics much more than it is currently, but at the same time it would be a safeguard that could somewhat protect the people.
Attila K.
When it comes to EU money, definitely. It's EU money, so I wouldn't mind having more regulations on exactly how it is spent and what kind of oversight it has, because it has clearly not worked properly for the last couple of years. We have to make sure for the future that this doesn't happen again. I think these regulators could learn a lot from the Hungarian situation, maybe get some advisors on how the corruption was done, and work on regulation to make sure that doesn't happen again.
About democratic safeguards, it's harder to answer. But in terms of democratic values, if we want common democratic values in Europe, then I think it is necessary to regulate this in some way as well. We have also had these kinds of laws in place, but the rule was that every party has to have 5 minutes of airtime on national television. What happened is that every other party got 5 or 10 minutes on air, and Fidesz got days, basically 24/7 coverage. That's not acceptable. I think in order to avoid these kinds of situations, it would be good to have a European regulation for this as well. The EU is not an organization that you have to be part of, but if you want to be part of it, then you should have some kind of common democratic values, so that it doesn't get to something like this.
About democratic safeguards, it's harder to answer. But in terms of democratic values, if we want common democratic values in Europe, then I think it is necessary to regulate this in some way as well. We have also had these kinds of laws in place, but the rule was that every party has to have 5 minutes of airtime on national television. What happened is that every other party got 5 or 10 minutes on air, and Fidesz got days, basically 24/7 coverage. That's not acceptable. I think in order to avoid these kinds of situations, it would be good to have a European regulation for this as well. The EU is not an organization that you have to be part of, but if you want to be part of it, then you should have some kind of common democratic values, so that it doesn't get to something like this.
PromethEUs
Would you like to add anything? If you had a wish about how the EU should keep going over the next few years, what do you expect from the EU, and from Hungary's new government? Any final words?
Attila K.
I would say that the EU maybe has to really be on guard in the next couple of years, because in Western Europe, especially now in France and in Germany, the right-wing anti-EU parties are getting really popular. I think the establishment in France and Germany is getting really complacent. They don't really listen to the issues that are brought up by the people. If changes are not made in national politics, that will ripple into the whole of the EU as well.
And if either Germany or France, some of the biggest nations in the EU, gets an anti-EU government, I would say it would have catastrophic effects on how the EU will cooperate in the future.
References
- No sources yet.
No comments yet.